That didnt work out. The deaths in this incident can be attributed to being trapped and forced to shelter in place. Asked if I knew if there were any other people down in that area. As one who has had experience and ready mix, concrete block, pavers, and pre-cast, one would be a fool to rebuild on ANY existing foundation that came in contact with temperatures approaching 3,000F. Kelly Morgans comments may have been harsh and offensive to some folks; but when government builds a wall; sometimes it takes a loud voice to get their attention. That factor is the density of residential development, layout of roads, and approved building materials present in that area. Location field must contain 'city, state' or a zip code to perform a radius search (e.g., Denver, CO or 46122).City and state must be separated by a comma followed by a space (e.g., Houston, TX) I know as I have been there many times due to security interests. Being an avid mountain hiker, I had seen evidence of fires from decades ago (Graveyard Fields being a macro example, but most prior fires in the forest were just like the ones this fall floor duff and fallen dead wood). Bats were roosting in the church rafters and dropping feces onto the pews. 1 dead in Anchorage home fire that officials say was likely caused by The Bob Stanton that has been commenting on this thread is NOT the former director of the NPS. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. Bob called. The appearance of dead hemlock progression is astounding. It certainly should be addressed, by We, the People. Their soft wood holds a lot of moisture normally, but the conditions the past few months would have dried the limbs and outer layers up the trunk. These words are so terribly inadequate but I feel even worse not saying anything at all. Nonetheless, your observations on the 21st indicate that no signs of the 14th fire were present; and if the NPS did fully suppress the first fire, their timeline was undoubtedly non-aggressive to do so. You forgot lack of funding to adequately staff the park. However, an event such as the Gatlinburg fires undoubtedly leads to a can of worms that some folks would rather just sweep under the rug. When you see more of them completely charred but living trees seemingly untouched that is a sign of both underground burning and how much water the living trees still possessed. These things dont come with the same cheap city plans out here in the rural mountainous zones! Their lack of extended skill training is apparent. The first thing you think is, Is this real?, said Tyler Neddo, a longtime employee of Caf 420. I would rather have someone on the job who has screwed up, erred and learned from the experience as I know that the chances of a repeat performance are lessened and for most learners they will progress forward with even better decision making skills. But. I hope that EM officials and local planning officials reconsider what and how structures are rebuilt in that area. There are three broad categories of conditions that affect the way a wildfire burns: weather, fuels (vegetation), and topography. About 20 years ago, I hiked to Albright Grove, an old-growth hemlock forest near Greenbrier. Gatlinburg fire: Body found in blaze rubble, cause of fire under Officials said three people. If you had transposed the same fire with similar conditions to California or Idaho would it have been managed the same way? Are county officials telling people about the Code Red Alert System? Neither the NPS nor the city wanted CNN cameras covering a mass evacuation of a town jam packed with tourists on Thanksgiving weekend. If the new location isnt in Gatlinburg, it will definitely be in Sevier County. Classic Swiss Cheese risk management fire management failurehave we as a profession learned anything since South Canyon, Yarnell and now Chimney Top 2? That afternoon a Chinook Type 1 helicopter (Type 1s are the largest helicopters used on wildfires) began dropping water on the fire, refilling at Fontana Lake 13 miles to the southwest, according to a source we talked to who didnt want their name disclosed because they were not authorized to speak on the subject. The electricity goes out almost everytime there is a high wind. Who ever was in charge should loose their job!!! As they are minors, nothing else is known other than the Feds said the State could prosecute. The 2016 Gatlinburg wildfire was deadliest in the eastern half of the U.S. since the Great Fires of 1947 in Maine and the worst in the history of Great . I got out of the car and walked up to the side of the pickup truck. Money and CNN. Will the NPS Fire Management leadership at the Regional, NIFC and Washington DC levels admit to some very poor policy and decision making problems associated with the Chimney Top 2 disaster? Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. This eventually will affect us all at some point in time, as we too may one day find ourselves faced with similar circumstance. This should not be a time to blame and inflame, but to think and act wisely. Yet today June 5th, Sevier County still has their infamous gag order in effect more than 6 months later in the interests of prosecuting the trial of the murdurous kids. I get free speech, but if I yelled fire in a crowded theater when there was none and it contributed to death and injury I too would be held liable; my speech would not be protected! We watched the news the rest of evening. The two juveniles who set a fire are not alone in this. Hire an independent fire behavior consultant to assist in PLANNING and timely response if conditions appear to be coming into (fire) alignment. The IMT reported that the fire had not increased in size over the previous 24 hours and was still listed at 17,006 acres. I only lost my house, but someone has to speak the truth about what did/didnt happen that day/night. Those decisions had to be made with the best information available at the time not what we now know in post incident critique. The truck was filled with firefighters. Bill, correct me if I am wrong, but aircraft should be on the ground a half hour after sunset? The fire season last year set new records in the state for the expansive area that burned, with more than 4.2m acres (1.7m hectares) scorched by more than 9,900 fires across California. I had these thoughts: if fire spreads from Chimney Tops and starts coming towards Gatlinburg, people are going to be getting gas and getting out. They were asleep at the wheel. Vincent Gabrielle, Knoxville News Sentinel. I will not be looking for Gatlinburg or Sevier county first response personnel as those people will be grounded by a spineless group of county, city and NPS managers Who can only be described as cowardly indecisive. The fire had spread to Mynatt Park in Gatlinburg, and people were being evacuated from neighborhood there. Some of those GSMNP personnel were trained out west and know how fast a wildfire spreads in high winds. To echo your statements, the information is out there, a model exists on how to properly do it now its getting the proper training for all of the professionals involved and the public taking the role of accountability watchdogs. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. Also important is accountability, so is teaching, learning and experience, so is action, so is on and on. A map posted with the Fire Information sign dated November 27 showed that the park hoped to stopthe fire before it crossed the bottom of drainages on the west, north and east sides, and the Chimney Tops Trail to the south. The remains of a business in Gatlinburg, Tenn., smolder on Nov. 29, after a devastating wildfire damaged or destroyed more than 2,000 buildings and killed at least 14 people. Or in steep cliff terrain it just isnt going to happen, no one on the fire. Above: The Drought Monitor issued November 29 showed Exceptional Drought, the highest category, for the Gatlinburg area and large sections of Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina, and South Carolina. Stupidity is as stupidity does. You certainly got it right when you said that sometimes government does not listen and it takes a loud voice. Back home in West TN, when tornado warnings were active in a particular area there were loud sirens that went off. I know that because of my experience, my training, my ongoing learning and situational awareness of a host of related and seemingly unrelated knowledge. Collaboration, open thinking and creativeness are key. (Bloomberg) -- Zoom Video Communications Inc. slumped in early trading Friday after abruptly terminating the employment of . My family lives 15 mi. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. For almost 24 hours a day for 10 days or more, I read everything I could about Gatlinburg, and even found Wildfire Today during that A high-elevation area that possessed the largest unbroken Spruce-Fir forest in the S. Appalachians. Bill thank you the excellent i sight and info that is hard to find publicly. Our neighbors 3 doors down were outside near their car. Rockslide on the Spur Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge - wate.com I spent two weeks in the area after the fire to inspect my property and ascertain where my wife and I would go from there. That is when I said to myself Where the hell is TEMA?. We couldnt go up Motor Nature Trail so we went back to Cherokee Orchard Road. I visited Gatlinburg on a trip to Asheville NC, in 1980. Had this fire+wind storm happened 3-4 weeks earlier it would have been exponentially worse, lots to be thankful for as we morn with TN. Especially our local emergency workers and the Park Service. Every business downtown was closed except for Bubba Gumps. I have been on both sides of that equation before and still real-ling from my own losses that will negatively affect me and my family for life, because no one took the time to question or look into the story presented to them by those authorities in charge. The adelgid apparently needs the rougher bark of older trees to climb up the trunk to the greenery on which they feed. Its hard to see. Sandra, I agree. Body found in rubble of Gatlinburg fire - wtvq.com Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. Breathing between car and house was hard. I guess they must think when you have to go up there to handle this mess they caused that you dont need lodging, food or gas to get there. This come from long time residents, The prices we have been getting should be considered price gouging because that is exactly what it is. I hope the recordings werent pulled under threat of someones attorney or the DA. Regarding the Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 14th, 2016, https://www.facebook.com/GreatSmokyMountainsNPS/posts/1236286613095333. Until 1 p.m. sustained speeds were 4 to 6 mph with gusts at 12 to 19 mph. If an aircraft will be en route to a lit helibase or airport, they can drop 30 minutes after sunset then fly to the lit facility. A friend that owns a rental company there said that about 90% of the homes in the area which leave them 10% they can rent or sale. Downtown Gatlinburg fire: Experts identify remains found in rubble Another factor in the tragic outcome goes way beyond any mismanagement of the fire in its early period. At least that is my understanding. Published: Dec. 24, 2022 at 10:17 AM PST GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and. They will be touched in their heart as deeply as anyone who has lost in the tragedy itself. I told him I would call fire department in Gatlinburg across from Food City. There will be time to consider legal and civil options later . We must change our minds first and then we must change our actions. Anticipating the fire season, firefighting resources (people and equipment) were brought in from around the Southeast and other parts of the country. I can picture all However, firebe it a wildfire, structure fire, flammable liquid fire or a a bi-nine campfire does not care or worry about budget cuts, staffing issues, political agendas, experienced or inexperienced decision making or other human factors. In response to Jeanne in regard to Kelly Morgans comments: It is the duty of the American people to honor and respect and obey the Laws of the Land unless government becomes a dictatorship to basic rights and freedoms. As I learned in the first 12 hours what took place there, I realized that there was almost no preparation for the risk of a fire, on any Still cant seem to get any answers if the BACKFIRES got out of control when the NPS ignited them contributing to the loss of life and structures in Gatlinburg??? It is very hard and slow to navigate through laurel stands and the thick Tennesee Barbed Wire Briar patches. I called Bob, boys and I got a bite to eat for supper so we wouldnt be a bother to our friends whose house we were going to wait out the evening. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? Who will accuse and then fire then? Virtually no one knows they have it and THEY DID NOT USE IT. It means they eliminated natural causes, such as lightning and volcano eruptions. We shouldnt have expected anything else, I dont know what we were thinking. We checked the Spot Weather Forecasts that were requested by the NPS and issued by the NWS for the Chimney Tops 2 Fire. Thats perfect Johnny. They had identifiedon a map a 410-acre fire management area which, depending on weather conditions, may allow for further fire growth. I can only say that I had no peace at all whatsoever after the first word I heard of the terrible fire there .. Gatlinburg fire 10/9/2022: One body found after Parkway blaze This story Im telling is all factual you see I have a problem with anyone exaggerating events as well as lying so I tell the truth regardless of how unpopular it may be. The People have been deceived with a vague and biased investigation regarding this particular bear incident. Wildland firefighters typically request Spot Weather Forecasts from the NWS for wildland fires or other events that can be greatly influenced by weather. People that I know said that not implementing fire suppression is exactly what they should have done, so we can agree to disagree. 100-acre brush fire causes evacuations in Collier County Many, if not most, of these incidents leave the confines of the managing agency and sweep out onto lands owned or managed by others. Triage of resource needs versus values at risk, firefighter safety, resource values and political realities all come into play. Whether a tornado, hurricane or natural disaster, it weighs on your psyche. If Knox media wanted to go after the NPS or someone else wanted them to, it is possible that even their timeline and investigation is slanted. She said smoke had been super heavy. Too often the only voice that is heard in our society is money and the more one has the more they are heard. Photos: Fire in Gatlinburg, Tennessee | Photo Galleries | herald Frederick County, MD tanker explosion leaves 1 dead; Shuts down part of We have border issues, at the local levels, states rights and federal rights that are still at issue, leadership silos, and rising political issues. They had their moment in history and did not rise to it. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Emotions do get the best of us. I picked them up and came back home with plans of bringing truck back over mountain and filling it up because it was near empty. The needle suffered extensive damage and was closed for three years. Published: Oct. 11, 2022 at 5:31 PM PDT GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. I would recommend reviewing Wildfire Todays post titled: NPS releases information about the Chimneys Tops Fire 2 as well as the post Analysis of wind, vegetation, and air tankers before the fire burned into Gatlinburg. Your reply well done! The man at the Forestry base told him the winds were predicted to keep getting stronger and to be careful of falling limbs. I believe God was speaking to me early in the day on 28th and I am grateful for the ability He blessed me with to get out of Gatlinburg early.. Massive Wildfire Engulfs Tennessee Resort Towns, Kills 3 Our responses to this fire event have included comments with blame and fault-finding as well as a suggestion that we investigate in order to learn for future decision-making. Authorities have not identified the victim or . We drove carefully and made it out of woods into Pigeon Forge safely. Incident Mgt. It is the duty of the people and Congress to maintain and voice our concerns and opinions to where check and balances work. Perhaps a simple thing like calling for a Voluntary Evacuation from Noon on that day could have made the danger more obvious in light of the forecast for storm warnings with high winds for the afternoon and overnight. Even so, is it risky to ignite backfire with such extreme fire conditions? Death toll rises to 13 in Tennessee wildfires as grim search for I hope the report gives the reason why the tanker planes were never called in since they are co-managed by the NFS and NPS. Apparently, when the second fire was started by the defendants on the 23rd, the NPS assumed they could handle the 23rd fire like they did the first fire of the 14th. I told her my concerns of fire, traffic, and falling trees blocking flow of traffic were there an emergency. We could smell smoke from the fires in NC for a month before the fire began on Chimney Tops. http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2016/12/13/timeline-gatlinburg-wildfires/95138656/. 10/10/22, 1:56 p.m. There was two contributing factors to this disaster. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new articles by email. Wildfire experts have been warning local government officials about the potential for a fire of this magnitude for years. Unfortunately, Im not optimistic about the inter-agency review. The news media started out just like the city news conference people leading people to believe the fire that burned everything occurred on November 28th, not true. I wonder why? Watch the pride and ego firefighters: youll never outmatch Gods elements. They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. Resident of Western Maryland. The next morning, the morning of 28th, I took boys to school and went to a dr. appointment in Sevierville. The Chimney Tops 2 could be a good case in point. It would be interesting to dig a little further on this. Tom, I want to express to you how sorry I am to hear about the loss of your cabin, what you went through escaping the fire, what you have gone through since the fire and what you are facing. Lets see, that would probably consist of a GS-5 or 6 and two or three seasonal GS-4s. There are thousands and thousands of people who feel as I do about your loss and the losses of so many people in Gatlinburg and the surrounding area. wasnt blocked off since Mynatt Park was told to evacuate at 5:17. This fire burned for almost a week, before it exploded into Gatlinburg. That didnt happen here. You are aware that Bill Gabbert the Editor of Wildfire Today spent a large part of his fire carrier with the Park Service where I believe he was served on a nationwide Type I IMT. My questions are: what were the wind speeds when NPS crews ignited these backfires to protect NPS structures; and if they ignited fire on the 28th when the winds were getting stronger and stronger, would the potential exist for backfire embers to get out of control? You can only manage one of those. Obviously spent no time in the military so they didnt know how to field dress A cigarette and pack it out. The cause of the fire remains under investigation. The Chimney Tops 2 Fire was reported in Great Smoky Mountains National Park near Gatlinburg, TN at approximately 5:30 p.m. on Wednesday, November 23, 2016. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. Experience by itself often lends to complacency and been there done that thinking. But it is good that you ask questions, and you should expect answers and a demonstration of learning, but you have to give that opportunity, just as you would want. Yes. Many citizens whom I spoke with had never heard the terms red flag alert and in absence of the term, were not aware of the situations that would lead to such a designation or where to turn to find information on wildfires. It is written by Stephanie Sweeney, whose house was off the Spur between Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge. Fire managers brought in resources from all over the country. One or two of those employees fall to their death because they shouldnt have been there in the first place. Everyone should also know that this area is characterized by mountain laurel, in some areas nearby its so thick the only way through is on top it or if your lucky under on your belly. Nearly five years. Our house was in a direct N/S line from the Chimneys. Not committing firefighters to direct attack in a steep very hard to access high risk area was a good decision. When one seriously examines the events, these lives could have been spared despite the power of fire and wind. Finally, the Superintendent has the power to call up all the resources which were available. One good place, James, to view an area after a devastating wildfire is adjacent to the Blue Ridge Parkway in and around the 418 milepost-the Graveyard Fields/ Shining Rock Wilderness areas. 2 min read. Now I am tasked with trying to motivate and coordinate the local fire departments much of who are volunteer, the state and national forest professionals to work with me and the community. There is an old saying he is known for: When government cannot accept criticism from the people, secular authority is no longer a democracy, but a dictatorship (paraphrased). Charges dropped against youths accused in Gatlinburg wildfires Which is why human history keeps repeating itself over and over. A fire burning under those conditions would likely burn more intensely, have a rate of spread faster than normal, and have more resistance to control. What the fire victims need is non-biased experts to analyze the BACKFIRES that the NPS claims they ignited to protect NPS structures. of them backing up and saying this isnt our problem we are carrying on just like always. The American publics outcry owe that much to the those whom lost loved ones, disrupted lives, destroyed both human property and natural resources in Gatlinburg, Tennessee during the Chimney Top 2 wildfire, November, 2016. I fully understand the financial difficulties of the NPS and with firefighters abroad. Thanks again for your touching reply. I found this blog and am so grateful to have an opportunity to reply and also to become informed from experienced, caring people of service in the firefighting effort. Yes my house burnt along with 520 others in North Chalet Village, village no longer but all foundations. Above: Chimney Tops 2 Fire at 9:37 p.m. November 28, 2016 after it had burned into Gatlinburg, Tennessee. My husband and I were at our house in Gatlinburg, just north of the Park Vista, on the night of the fire. Like I said this is like so many tragic events, a chain reaction of events that all contributed to a disastrous outcome, because of actions and inactions that were not questioned or corrected at many steps of the way. I said at the time thatvwas crazy, evac. The fire was south of Gatlinburg. I dont know details as to the trail. We warned them about the approaching fire before turning the opposite direction to proceed on downtown. Yes, good points Jody. Yes, there is backside-covering going on. Officials keep repeating that nothing like this has ever happened here before so they cant be responsible. The fire on Sunday caused extensive damage to a block of . The 2016 Great Smoky Mountains wildfires, also known as the Gatlinburg wildfires, [1] were a complex of wildfires which began in late November 2016. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. It seems to me that the extreme wind was as unprecedented as the drought and the low stream levels. The report stated the roof started to collapse, and the building was deemed too unsafe to work inside. The report said the fire was an accident and caused around $7 million in damages. I hope the governors investigation team finds all of the miscues AND gets proper training for all the different agencies involved. Local folks here who have been involved with Park issues have an old saying about the NPS and their mismanagement of historic structures. The report concluded that the fire was an accident; however, officials said the investigation was limited because the building was not structurally sound. I would like to insert the word, accountability into this discussion. Now I can only imagine what children or adults with issues might have gleaned from this message being broadcast. The further fire growth part was more accurate than they realized at the time. Fire kills 1, destroys businesses in downtown Gatlinburg, Tenn
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